1.

Apologies for Absence

Apologies were received from Selwyn Roberts, Ros Hastings and John Crolla.

Simon McCullough, the new JLC representative, was welcomed. He attends as an observer. TP also reminded council that some items under discussion were confidential to council.

2.

Minutes of Meeting held on Tuesday 14^th June

12.3    Salisbury are co-ordinating the microarray user group on behalf of the DoH.

13.3 Remove heading.

13.3.5 correct numbering through to end of section.

13.3.5 (2) NOWGEN to Manchester Reference Laboratory.

14.1 Add ‘The DipACC and the old DipRCPath are different qualifications. The MRCPath part 1 (DipRCPath) is the minimum qualification for a principal post.’

14.3 Add ‘Equal opportunities is a local issue, and problems should be tackled locally. Council believes that there should be equal access to CPD.’

18.2 Add ‘ All archived documents are in the safe keeping of the associations archivist.’

18.3 Change NOWGEN to Manchester Reference Laboratory.

3.

Safety Advisors Report

There was nothing to report.

4.

NEQAS

There was no NEQAS report.

Several members of council raised the issues of frequency or distributions and delays in receiving report and asked that this be discussed at the next Steering Group meeting

Action TP

5.

Education and Training

5.1

ETC

Report by KS

5.2

White Paper

The trainee recruitment process is under way. Laboratories were asked to take a flexible approach towards the training money and to submit proposals. There have been 5 proposals so far, one for a full time trainer and four involving p/t training. It was agreed that all were appropriate, and they were submitted to the DoH, from whom a response is awaited. Diane Kennard is on annual leave, and a reply is expected on her return.  The DoH accepted the proposal for the collation of existing teaching material into an e-learning package. Gavin Cuthbert is to explore the material available. When done a proposal will go to the ETC and then to DoH.

5.3

Training

GC carried out 19 first assessments in the period up to July. At the moment everybody is on target and all assessments should be completed in year 1.  There have been enquiries about a further training course for internal assessors. There is thought to be some merit in this. Formats are being explored and a costed proposal will go to ETC.  Exemptions from the project module can be given if the trainee has done research work in cytogenetics as part of a MSc. or PhD. This exemption is to be opened up to include work related to Genetics.  There has been debate about increasing the level of molecular training (Molecular genetics, molecular cytogenetics and new technologies), however all proposals to date lie within HST rather than A-grade training. Some of this could be covered in the consolidation period.   It must be clear that trainees are fit for purpose and scope of practice at registration.  There was also some discussion about the content of the new MSc, what would be academic and what would be lab based. This needs to be debated by the profession.  CMGS have found a course at Derby University, learning through work, which allows students to earn credits towards a qualification. It is possible to get worked based learning leading to a degree/MSc. However there is uncertainty about the status of the qualification. TP attended a presentation at Derby University. What is really needed is the supply and infrastructure for learning. There will also be no backfill for staff.  There have been lots of e-mails about fit-for-purpose at registration, but there is only a short consultation period. LG stated that it would be good to have a starting position on scope of practice, with a menu of ideas to start with. There was discussion on what other disciplines have and the involvement of the ACS. There is no clear idea of the how the NOS and new MSc will look yet, but the ACC has a chance to be involved in the development. TP stated that we need to be clear in the scope of practise, registered scientists will start at the bottom of band 7 and will be able to move to the top. 

A Heads of Department meeting was suggested, possibly over 2-3 days. A number of guest speakers were suggested. VD suggested that the Biochemists may have a view on Scope of Practice as they have had an MSc for some time. LG pointed out that Sue Hill has been working with the audiologists, who also have CS and MTO staff, and that 2 universities run courses for them. It was also suggested that professional facilitators could be engaged. TP asked for a working party to pull the meeting together.

Action LG, TD, PH and VD to organise meeting.

JWa suggested talking to other CS groups to identify core skills. TP thought that these were identified in the generic competencies of the ACS and NOS. KS asked that some information be distributed to HoDs before the meeting to bring everybody up to speed.

5.4

Study Days

There have been 4 study days so far this year, with three more planned. One will be at Newcastle, Edinburgh and Barts.

5.5

Workforce Report

The 2004 workforce report has been distributed to the laboratories via HoDs. Council was asked if we should contribute to the Royal College collection of workforce data. David Delmege’s comments had been distributed to council and HoDs.  LG and VD suggested that we should continue with our own database and contribute to the Royal Colleges. There are benefits from the Royal Colleges, but our own data is more complete as it includes technical staff.

Action Do both.

5.6

Terms of reference ETC

A draft of the Terms of Reference for the ETC was circulated. This was accepted by council.

Action KS to circulate to ETC

5.7

National Trainer

JWo reported that his Trust is still blocking the appointment of administrative support for GC. He also reported that the post expires in March 2008, when there may still be trainees not on the MSc course. KS reported that this has been flagged up, and that there may still be overlap if the MSc starts in 2007.

5.8

Technologists Training

MF reported that there has been one meeting of the technologists group. Application forms and guidance notes for registration (applicants and scrutinisers) were discussed.  There has been a meeting of the VRC, which hopes to become a limited company by December. The register will open in September/October for ‘safe’ candidates. The Genetic technologists are not ready yet; they still have to examine educational requirements.   A VRC newsletter has been circulated, and it is hope this will now be a quarterly publication.  EBS are setting up a database for the register.

AGTC are defining scope of practice and are looking at education providers. TP asked if the Learn Direct approach had been considered. MF reported that this was an option, but there were issues about who would apply, as it may appeal more to candidates with A-levels. They felt a degree should be the registration qualification, without another 3 years training post degree.

5.9

Postgraduate Certificate Clinical Cytogenetics

TP reported that he had signed 4 certificates in the last quarter.

6

Chairs Report

6.1

UKGTN

This special item was presented by JB, who is the ACC representative on UKGTN. A proposal was submitted to UKGTN in April, regarding Associate membership, this was distributed to council members prior to the meeting. Molecular colleagues were generally supportive of the idea, but the chair asked for more details. Concerns were expressed as there is only a small administrative group and they are worried about the potential doubling of the number of laboratories; and there is uncertainty that the cytogenetics laboratories will have enough network activity.  Laboratories can submit a gene dossier, which if accepted testing would be available nationally. Funding should be provided centrally, but there may be some problems.  At present only constitutional referrals are considered, but if cytogenetics laboratories become involved they may be able to push for acceptance of acquired conditions.  TP inquired about the future of UKGTN. JB reported that they have received funding for a further 3 years, and that it is regarded as a success.

Other points raised included: -

·         Associate membership is probably not an option; only applications for full membership will be considered.

·         If there is a rationalisation of laboratories, we will need to have a voice at UKGTN.

·         When UKGTN approves a test, it also has a role in deciding who offers it.

·         There is probably no utility in exchanging routine cytogenetic samples, but there may be a role in developing a molecular cytogenetics network and database. With centralised funding, tests could be sent out with out the need for billing referring laboratories.

·         VD thought that CGH could be a starting point for cytogenetics laboratories, providing a service from outside of their region.

·         UKGTN not only looks at new tests, but also considers the utility of existing tests.

·         The consensus of council was that Cytogenetic laboratory membership of UKGTN should be pursued.

Action JB to continue raising with UKGTN

6.2

ACS

ACS met on the 5 July. Christopher Green and Daisy Haggerty, the Clinical Scientist representatives on the HPC council attended.  HPC have set up a liaison group for the implementation of CPD – no further details. The HPC document, CPD consultations – Key decisions was circulated to HoDs in August.  Andrew Foster is to lead a review of non-medical registration. ACS will prepare an official response.  The HPC is consulting on Returners to practice; ACS will again be drafting a response.  Sue Hill attended part of the meeting. She discussed the clinical scientists 3 year MSc. (although the Physicists would like a taught PhD.), and is hoping that the MSc. will be structured around the NOS and approved prior learning. She expressed an interest in examining post-registration training, and the introduction of a second tier of registration, possibly at consultant level.

6.3

JCMG

There has been no meeting, but e-mails have been exchanged about the Consent and Confidentiality document. E-mails have also been exchanged clarifying the issue about the exchange of reports between laboratories.

6.4

BSHG

There has been no meeting, the next is at York.

6.5

Federation for Healthcare Science

There has been no meeting of the FHCS.

6.6

Genetics IT OBS

The Output based specification (OBS) for Genetic Services in England has been completed and circulated. It is available on the NGRL (Manchester Website)

7

GenCAG

GenCAG have not met since the last council meeting. The next meeting will be in September/ October.

8

Scientific Matters

8.1

Professional Standards Committee

8.2

Best Practice Guidelines for Pre-natal Diagnosis

EM had previously circulated the draft to council, and had received some late comments.

These were discussed and some amendments suggested

Action EM and TD

8.3

QF-PCR

TD requested a further workshop on trouble shooting QF-PCR. This will be arranged through the PSC

Action EM

8.4

CVS Database

The database has been finalised and distributed to several laboratories. There has been no feedback so far. JWo asked if the database should be made available to all.

8.5

Amniocentesis Bank

Some laboratories have been contacted about forming a national amniocentesis bank. The consensus of council was that there needs to be some form of national agreement before this can be supported.

8.6

Chromosome Abnormality Database

The website is now fully operational. It will be on display at York.

8.7

PND Survey

The data was published in Lancet on 9^th July. There has been no decision from the National Screening Committee yet on what testing should be performed. E-mail correspondence has been exchanged between Ron Zimmermann and John Crolla.

Action TP to copy correspondence to Council.

9.0

Royal College of Pathologists

There has been no meeting since council last met.  John Old is Vice President of the Royal College, and is the next Chair of SAC.  Draft guidelines form the  Human Tissue Act are out for consultation .

10

JLC

10.1

PSCC

JLC asked if the PCCC could be converted to an MSc. Post AfC A-grade and post A-grade will disappear, and will training leading to registration and an MSc. The PCCC cannot be converted to an MSc. As it is not quality assured by a government body.

10.2

BSHG

There will be a JLC session at BSHG, Peter Howard has agreed to talk about an assessors view of registration .

11

Treasurers Report

11.1

JWo reported that the accounts were healthy. There was an overspend on ETC, but he was aware that this would happen and it was accounted for. The number of trainees has increased, but so have the funds received.

11.2

Remuneration

JWo had circulated a discussion document to council prior to the meeting.  He reminded council that any profits from meetings help to cover the expenses of the ACC and council. He suggested that meetings should cover the costs of the organisers. Also reasonable claims for remuneration should also be met, for invited speakers. It was also agreed by council that invited speakers at study days, A-grade training courses and specifically invited speakers at best practice meeting should receive a £50 honorarium and free registration.

Action ETC to update instructions for organisers.

12

Correspondence

12.1

TP received an e-mail from Diane Kennard inviting comments from the ACC on the future and function of the National Reference Laboratories. She questions how we would like to see them change. TP requires comments before 23/9/05.

Action: All

12.2

Barbara Gibbons has written proposing that we hold joint Spring meetings with CMGS. It was felt that it is already too late to organise for 2006 and may be too late for 2007 (2008 venue also booked). ADM felt that the cytogenetics focus may be lost for junior members. It was suggested that this could be a future project for the reference laboratories.

12.3

Barbara Gibbons reported that she had heard from the DTI that the shortage occupation information had been passed onto the DH.

13

Matters Arising

13.1

The ACC document ‘Appointment of Spokespersons for the ACC’ was circulated prior to the meeting. It was pointed out that the Association carries no insurance.

13.2

ECA Conference 2009

JWo, Eddie Maher and a board member of the ECA will be conducting a site visit in Edinburgh. A decision on the venue is expected shortly.

13.3

A resolution will be taken to the AGM to confirm technical representation on Council.

Action TP

13.4

There was a low turnout in the elections.

13.5

Maj Hulten has agreed to accept nomination for President of the Association. The nomination will be taken to the AGM.

Action TP

13.6

Structure of Council

Discussions are on going. Recommendations should be with council by June 2006.

Action: Trustees

14

Applications for Membership

There were no applications for membership.

15

AOB

15.1

ACC Logo

ADM circulated some alternative versions of the ACC logo. Council agreed that this was worth pursuing.

Action ADM to bring more examples to the next council

15.2

Name Change

As the association is recruiting more technical members it was suggested that the association should become ‘Association for Clinical Cytogenetics’.

Action: JWo to investigate consequences

15.3

GL reported that Dave Couzin is due to retire from Aberdeen.  It was suggested that council should write and wish him well.  Action: TP

15.4

Agenda

TD asked council for permission to restructure the agenda. She suggested that the Safety Advisors report and NEQAS reports should be taken off. The Safety Advisor could be asked to report on specific issues. The relationship with NEQAS should be via the chairman who sits on the Steering Committee. She also proposed that the Technical Staff Report should be a standing item, and that a written report could come from Katie Waters for GenCAG.

ETC, PSC and JLC could all report back from their meetings. TD also asked that written reports be circulated in advance.

Action: TD to write letter of thanks to Selwyn Roberts.

15.5

It was requested that council dates be put on the website.

Action: RM to inform Webmaster when 2006 dates confirmed.

15.6

There have been no further applicants for ACC travel grants. A reminder will be published in the Newsletter.

Action CW &ADM

15.7

TP thanked Malcolm Fergusson-Smith and Nick Telford for their time on Council, as this was their last meeting.

15.8

NT asked if it was necessary for the ACC to maintain a membership database. The BSHG database is more up to date. He did point out that the membership form needs redesigning to collect data for banding and qualifications.  He questioned the need for a membership secretary. It was pointed out that there was a role for sending out introductory letters.  Applications for membership can be handled by the Secretary.

15.9

UKCCG can contact TD if they want a representative to attend council.

15.10

TP thanked Val for hosting the meeting.

16

Date of Next Meeting

6 December, Canterbury Hall, London.  Please bring diaries to set dates for 2006.