1.

Apologies for Absence                      

Apologies were received from Ros Hastings, Selwyn Roberts, Rod Howell and Michelle Fenlon.

2.

Minutes of the meeting held on Tuesday 7^th September

Para 1.1 Change "…Fenton…" to "…Fenlon…"

Para 10.3 Delete sentence and add "The JLC would remind members of the AGM, because of the low attendance in 2003."

Para 10.4 Delete sentence beginning "It was thought…" and add ", this would be supported if held in conjunction with the quarterly council meetings."

3.

Safety Advisor's Report

There was no safety advisor's report.

4.

NEQAS

The NEQAS report was circulated before the meeting. RH was unable to attend.

4.1

Website

The second pilot case has been delayed until the New Year due to other EQA work commitments. A second password for the webpage will be distributed to laboratories this week.

4.2

EQA rounds

CML 2004. Reports issued. Good performance overall, one poor performer.

Solid Tissues 2004. Good performance overall, no poor performers.

Solid Tissue Case Scenario Pilot. Summary report only sent. Some constructive feedback will be discussed at the next Steering Group meeting.

QF-PCR Pilot. Individual reports and a summary letter sent to all participants. Good performance overall.

4.3

Pilots

CVS Case Scenario. Assessors to meet to discuss in a few weeks.

4.4

2004-2005 Rounds

January 2005. FISH EQA using the ccneqas website.

Amniotic fluid, CVS and ALL. Assessors meetings in December and January to discuss results.

5.0

Education & Training

5.1

ETC Report Kim Smith

5.1.1

National Trainee Co-ordinator

The job description for the National Pre-registration Co-ordinator has been sent to the Workforce Development Confederation that is co-ordinating the appointment of the White Paper trainees (Cambridge, Norfolk and Suffolk). There has been no response from them yet. Other options include contracting other individuals to deliver some of the training, or using the money for backfill and trainer support. It is hoped to fill the co-ordinator position first and then discuss further options. The co-ordinator role will have to be job evaluated under AfC, and it may be necessary to wait and see at what level it assimilates. There was some discussion over this, and it was thought that the loss of a clinical role may be important.

CMGS have advertised eight 0.5 WTE trainer posts, and have been inundated with requests.

Agreement is needed urgently by the profession as we are at risk of losing the money.

The post is not for representing the profession at MSc discussions, but to support the training of  A grade trainees.

Other people are already carrying a large part of this role, with a member of staff in Newcastle effectively lost to support national training.

VD asked if the ACC could provide backfill, but this was not possible.

TD asked what other options were being pursued. KS replied that Sue Malcolm is prepared to help, but can only provide support as she does not have the expertise to provide the content.

TD also asked if there was an element of administration in the job description. KS replied that the post would retain responsibility for administration, but a part time (0.6WTE) A&C4 post will be advertised.

TP stated that we need to advertise as soon as possible. We can then begin to pursue other options such as backfill support, and commissioning training packages from cytogeneticists that Sue Malcolm can produce.

KS said that we have small ETC and sub-committees that can take training forward, but the appointee will be a key person.

5.1.2

Clinical Scientist training

KS reported that she, VD and TP had attended a meeting on MTO training called by Sue Hill at which Clinical Scientist training was also discussed.

Current training is not viable; it is provided by and assessed by the profession. In the future training must be independently assessed to QAA standards.

Ministers have approved vocational qualifications, leading to an MSc. A delivery board has been set up at DoH level and involves WDCs, Universities and working groups. Genetics can feed into the delivery board. The project managers will start in the New Year, and will aim to complete in 1 year. It is uncertain at the moment if the qualification will be in Genetics or Genetics/Embryology.

5.1.3

A-Grade Training

12 individuals sat the final assessments, 9 passed and 3 failed.

The number of windows for final assessments has been increased from 3 to 4.

Copies of the study days have been sent to Heads of Departments and are also available on the ETC website.

5.1.4

Refund Policy for A-Grade Trainees Who Leave

JW proposed a change in the current policy. Current costs of the ETC are about £60,000 per year, with an income of about £64,000, leaving the ETC slightly in credit. With the change to residential courses the ETC cannot afford to be so generous with its refund policy. The proposal is:-

1 unit completed, 75% refund and loose Training for Trainers place

Assessment and 1 residential course completed, 50% refund and lose Training for Trainers

If further along, no refund and retain Training for Trainers place.

Council accepted the new refund policy.

Action JW to circulate to HODs

5.1.5

JCMG

KS informed council that the JMGC had asked for a representative from the profession to explore general training. The remit of the committee is not known at the moment, but may be to discuss commonality of training. KS suggested that one of the JLC reps may wish to represent council. VD queried the role of the committee as Birmingham has a contract for training Medical Professionals in aspects of Genetics.
The role of the ACC representative would be to observe and  report back to council. The frequency of the meetings is not known.

Action JLC

5.1.6

HPC Consultation

TP responded on behalf of the profession. He raised concerns about the discretionary relationship that the professional bodies would have. The HPC have now published, with most of their recommendations in place. The relationship between professional bodies and HPC must remain discretionary over training, as the HPC may need to approve courses provided by the professional bodies. The professional bodies will have some input through placements with the HPC.

5.1.7

Workforce Co-ordinator

David Delmege attended a meeting at the Royal College of Pathologists who wish to undertake workforce data collection on behalf of Clinical Scientists. The College would hold e-census details of individuals, and would seek to represent the professions to the DoH over workforce needs.

DD has expressed concerns about data protection, as they will hold detailed information. Concerns were also expressed at how the College can handle the needs of all professions and how needs will be prioritised. DD has spoken to the workforce review team at the DoH, and they are pleased with our data and its quality.

It is proposed that DD will attend meetings to observe and that the ACC will not submit data this year.

TP reported that the College will collect names to avoid duplication, but will ultimately track the person rather than posts. He expressed uncertainty that this will work for us.

JC reminded council that Clinical Scientists are an important group within the College, representing 20-23% of members and that Graham Beastall, a biochemist, is currently vice-President. The interests of Genetics are protected by the SAC. Membership of the College is increasing at a rapid rate, and within 5 years the number of members may have increased by 1/3. It is important to maintain existing links with the College as the HR census is important. However the  College collection would result in triplication of data.

John Wolstenholme pointed out that the ACC data includes all staff, the Colleges data would be, at best, incomplete.

KS suggested that it would be useful for succession planning, but that we would like to retain our links with the workforce review team. Other comments included that the data would be held on only 1/3 of Clinical Scientists and concerns as to how the data would be collected with the changes with AfC.

The decision not to submit data will be reviewed in 12 months.

5.1.8

Chair of ETC

KS reminded Council that the position of Chair of the ETC is on a 3 years cycle and elections are due to be held next year.

5.2

ACC Membership

5.2.1

Training and Education of Genetic Technologists

Notes of a meeting to discuss training and education of Genetic Technologists, called by Sue Hill, were circulated prior to the meeting. It is clear that the VRC cannot be set up until all the education needs are in place. Along with CMGS we need to work with HE providers to structure a curriculum for technical staff. A number of universities already provide the type of education required.

VD is leading with the technical staff, training group, Peter Howard volunteered to help with this. David Batty is leading for CMGS. The CMGS TAB is meeting on 8 December and VD will sit-in on the discussions on technical training.

5.2.2

Voluntary Registration Council (MTOs)

There have been two meetings about the MTO register. TP attended with Michelle Fenlon on 30 September and with Frankie Shaw on 25 November. At present the Registration Council is happy for Clinical Scientists to attend meetings.

The VRC is due to meet with solicitors shortly and it is thought the register will be formed in February/March 2005. It will be opened for Anatomical Pathologists and Cervical Cytology Screeners first. Once Genetics Technologists have an education plan they will be able to join with their existing qualifications.

The VRC is funded by the DoH until the end of March, but the council is preparing a business plan in the hope the DoH will continue the funding for a further 12 months.

Frankie Shaw has volunteered to be Company Secretary, Michelle Fenlon will attend council meetings as a Genetics Technologist representative. Frankie Shaw is having some problems getting paid time off for registration meetings. The ACC can not meet claims for lost earnings. Salary of council officers is included in the business case to the DoH. Once the register is open, it will begin to raise money and will be able to address problems of lost salary and travelling expenses.

5.2.3

Code of Conduct

The proposed code of conduct for the VRC was previously circulated, a code of conduct is a pre-requisite for the registration council. Falling foul of the code of conduct can lead to registrants being disciplined.

TP asked council to consider if the ACC needs a Code of Conduct. ADM said that we are bound by the HPC code, but TP thought it was a good time to review our position. Council felt the ACC did not require a Code of Conduct.

5.3

Professional Standards Committee

5.3.1

QF-PCR

EM apologised for the lack of feedback. The SOP for Best Practice Workshops was submitted to council 18 months ago. It had anticipated how joint workshops would work. The plan with the QF-PCR workshop was to publish the draft on the CMGS website, with comments back to the CMGS and then to the Professional Standards Committee. Council raised concerns that the guidelines would be ratified without input by the ACC. EM replied that the final version would not be published without ratification by both ACC and CMGS.

Comments to the PSC were in two distinct areas. The role of the state registered molecular geneticist is a point of contention. Molecular techniques are becoming widespread in Pathology, performed by staff with appropriate training. Some feel that CMGS deliver the only recognised training. There was no consensus over this point.

The first drafts of the document were sent to participants by Kathy Mann, and it had been modified in the light of comments she had received.

EM asked if council would ratify the Guidelines. John Wolstenholme felt that some cytogenetics involvement was also required. KS felt that the wording needed changing to allow a different mode of delivery in the future. She proposed that results should be verified by registered Clinical Scientists with appropriate training in QF-PCR interpretation. VD said that she was initially happy with the guidelines, but now felt that as more disciplines take on molecular genetic techniques, they will not want to be hamstrung by having to involve a molecular geneticist. She now felt that it should be a registered Clinical Scientist with appropriate molecular genetic technology training.

EM will take this view back to the PSC, and felt that this was a useful approach.

5.3.2

Professional Guidelines Workshop

EM reported that this was very successful, with representatives attending from all laboratories. A draft is now in preparation and will be circulated to all HoDs and participants. Follow-on workshops are being organised for specific sub-specialities, Haematological Malignancy in Cardiff 31 January (Mark McKinley) and PND in Bristol early in March 2005. The sub-speciality guidelines will be added as appendices to the main guidelines.

5.3.3

Cost of Workshops

The standard rate for ACC meetings is £70.00, EM asked if this could be reduced to £40.00 to encourage attendance. The treasurer replied that the standard fee helped cover the costs behind the meeting, eg travelling expenses of those running the meeting, room hire etc. and not all meetings make a profit. The charge for workshops will remain at the standard rate.

5.3.4

Studyday on FISH in Lymphoma and Lymphatic Disease

The ACC has received a request from Sheila O’Connor to approve this meeting. This was agreed.

6

Chairs Report

6.1

AGM

The AGM was attended by 50-60 people.

John Crolla was elected as a new trustee.

Pat Jacobs was elected an emeritus fellow.

6.2

BSHG

TP reported on the meeting of 13 September. BSHG has now become affiliated to the HTA. This will allow us to have some influence on the research they carry out. Eddy Maher will be the ACC representative.

BSHG council will continue to have 2 representatives from each professional group. TD will replace KW, two out of three from TP, TD, John W attend each meeting .

Nominations are being sought from the professional bodies, for lifelong members. These should be senior members of the profession.

BSHG is to revamp its website. It is keen to explore a similar look and feel to the constituent groups of BSHG. The feeling of council was that we should first improve our communication  and then look at BSHG. The design of the ACC website has been changed, not the content.

Richard Trenbath VC of BSHG will be the next chair. He will be the second successive CGS chair and BSHG would like the next chair to come from a different constituent group.

BSHG travel awards are to be increased from £150-200 to up to £500.

A chair is required by 10 January for the scientific programme committee at the BSHG meeting. John Barber, ACC representative on the committee was suggested.

Action JC and TP to approach John Barber

6.3

ACS

The membership fee for this is £700.  This is the fee for a medium size group (150-700 members.). In future BSHG will need to collect members grades, etc as not all members of the ACC will be Clinical Scientists. This fee will be increased.

Assessors need to attend training every three years. The next training course will be in January 2005.

The ACS has standardised the management competencies in portfolios. They will cover a wide range at the laboratory practice level.

The HPC had 2 away days on 6-7 October, considering the structure of the register. There has been no feedback yet.

6.4

JCMG

TP and JC attended on 19 October. 

The Human Tissue Bill has received Royal Assent. The Human Tissue Authority will be the regulatory body. A chair has been recruited, and members are now being sought.

Current advice is not to change practices at the moment. Statutory powers will not be invoked until the authority produces best practice guidelines, probably in about 12 months. Enforcement will then begin.

The bill that was passed was substantially amended, due to the large amount of structured professional input. However JC is concerned that it will have an impact on small trainee research projects.

The Mental Incapacity Bill is causing some concern for Clinical Geneticists, as it may make taking samples difficult.

Pat Ward gave a presentation on the Down Screening programme.

The report on confidentiality will be published after it has been amended to take account of the Human Tissue Bill.

Six molecular genetics laboratories are benchmarking the workload units to inform the Payment By Results process.

There is a debate at the commissioner level about whether Genetics is like Pathology. A camp is emerging that we are different.

6.5

FHCS

There has been no meeting.

Janet Smith (ACB) has been nominated from the life Sciences strand to serve on the Executive.

The DoH would like FHCS to become more important.

There will be a NOS workshop at the end of this week. This will finalise the NOS and map them onto career pathways. The NOS will also be need to be externally assessed to QAA standards. A final workshop in February will consider the training implications of the NOS, which in the future will inform real training programmes.

7. 0

Genetics Commissioning Advisory Group Report (GenCAG)

7.1

Katie Waters is the new ACC representative to GenCAG.

7.2

GenCAG are looking at a quality marker for laboratories.